Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT_ZIP/spacedig/V15_2/V15NO222.ZIP/V15NO222

Internet Message Format | 1993-07-13 | 32KB

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 05:11:33
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #222
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Sat, 19 Sep 92       Volume 15 : Issue 222

Today's Topics:
                "The Universe of MOTION" (book review)
                   Drop nuc waste into sun (3 msgs)
            Energy supplies was (Re: Population) (3 msgs)
                   House-Senate NASA Budget Members
                 How does population relate to space?
              Ion for Pluto Direct was Re: Pluto Direct
                  Minimal chemical mission to Pluto
                       overpopulation (2 msgs)
                  PBS offers two FREE student events
                              Population
                      radioactive waste disposal
                           Radio ownership
            Space Platforms (political, not physical : -)

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
    "[e-mail]", and (un)subscription requests of the form
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 23:31:03 GMT
From: "Richard A. Schumacher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: "The Universe of MOTION" (book review)
Newsgroups: sci.space

Well, finally! SCIENCE without all those DAMN NUMBERS to trip over.
Pass me a Leinies.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 1992 16:24 EST
From: WENDY WARTNICK <[e-mail]>
Subject: Drop nuc waste into sun
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeff Bytof) writes...
>John Stevenson asks:


Okay...enlighten me too...

What if we launched our rocket from somewhere north of 50 degrees and
launched it out of the ecliptic plane?  I mean, the angular velocity thing
would still be there but who cares?  What is it going to hit "up" there?
Is it a temperature thing (too cold at northern--or southern for that
matter) launch sites?  Besides, there are lots of unpopulated places
farther north/south.

                WEndy

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 20:15:28 GMT
From: Jeff Bytof <[e-mail]>
Subject: Drop nuc waste into sun
Newsgroups: sci.space

>i heard once that the russians used to spread their nuclear
>"wastes" on the streets to melt the snow.  might be true:)

Hopefully that story is apocryphal.

Just heard on the radio: in 1972, a Soviet military jet crashed
in Siberia and 17 inhabitants of the area died of radiation poisoning
from poking through the wreckage, which contained material from
nuclear explosives.

Might make you think twice about poking around a crash site!

Jeff Bytof
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 23:24:33 GMT
From: "Richard A. Schumacher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Drop nuc waste into sun
Newsgroups: sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Hey! What about us Vesuvians??

Actually, you're known as "Venusians", "Venerians", or "those loadmouthed
obnoxious pests to Sunward".

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 21:42:59 GMT
From: Steinn Sigurdsson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Energy supplies was (Re: Population)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:


   > Geothermal power from liquid and from dry reservoirs offers the
   > potential for very very large amounts of power. A few shallow
   liquid

   > reservoirs are being tapped today, but the greatest potential is
   for

   > deep dry heat reservoirs. This is probably the largest untapped
   source

   > of energy on the planet that is obtainable with minimal engineering
   > advances.

   A minor quibble with an otherwise fine peice: geothermal has been
   having problems in some areas (California). It depends upon there
   being enough subsurface water to bring the geothermal energy to the
   surface in the form of high temperature steam. Over drilling depletes
   the water table and energy extraction falls off. And no, it is not
   all that easy to get water pumped down into the layer. There have
   been suggestions of doing things to cause fracturing of the rock
   layers, but I don't think anything has been really done on this yet.
   And I doubt Project Plowshare is going to be revived any time soon
   :-)

Geothermal has more mundane problems like corrosion and
mineral precipitation in the plumbing. Turns out typically
your steam comes out loaded with gooey worhtless minerals which
precipitate all over the place. A soluble problem but it makes
the operating costs high, on the other hand we're still on the the
low end of the learning curve...

|  Steinn Sigurdsson    |I saw two shooting stars last night        |
|  Lick Observatory    |I wished on them but they were only satellites    |
| [e-mail] |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?        |
| "standard disclaimer"    |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983    |

------------------------------

Date: 19 Sep 92 00:07:07 GMT
From: Paul Dietz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Energy supplies was (Re: Population)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

> A minor quibble with an otherwise fine peice: geothermal has been
> having problems in some areas (California). It depends upon there
> being enough subsurface water to bring the geothermal energy to the
> surface in the form of high temperature steam. Over drilling depletes
> the water table and energy extraction falls off. And no, it is not
> all that easy to get water pumped down into the layer. There have
> been suggestions of doing things to cause fracturing of the rock
> layers, but I don't think anything has been really done on this yet.


Geothermal actually comes in at least four different forms.

The first is steam geothermal.  In some formations, steam (not
hot water) is available underground.  The Geysers in California
is an example of such a place.  This steam can be tapped and
used to generate electricity.  This is the place that has
experienced a decline in capacity.

The second is hot water.  This resource is larger than the previous,
but still small.  The water contains all sorts of dissolved stuff,
which complicates things.  The water can either be flashed to steam
(open cycle) or used to heat a working fluid, say pentane (closed
cycle).

The third is hot dry rock.  This resource is potentially enormous, in
the US thousands of times the fossil fuel resource.  Experiments with
hydrofracturing have been done, along with preliminary experiments at
water injection.  Although it looks feasible, it also looks expensive.

The fourth is magma power.  It is actually possible to drill a hole
*into* a magma chamber.  A drill string is normally lubricated by
pumping down a fluid (drilling mud); when drilling into a magma
chamber this will cause a cylinder of solidified rock to form.  If
water is then circulated through the borehole, it can extract heat
fast enough to keep the borehole and its surrounding rock cylinder
from melting.  Heat is transfered efficiently from the magma reservoir
to the borehole through the fairly thin cylinder of rock; convection
keeps bringing along hot magma.  Circulation must be continuous
however, or the borehole melts.  The potential magma resources
are also large.

    Paul F. Dietz
    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 19 Sep 92 03:21:59 GMT
From: "Thomas H. Kunich" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Energy supplies was (Re: Population)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>A minor quibble with an otherwise fine peice: geothermal has been
>having problems in some areas (California). It depends upon there
>being enough subsurface water to bring the geothermal energy to the
>surface in the form of high temperature steam. Over drilling depletes
>the water table and energy extraction falls off.

This is something of an understatement. It turns out to be both
difficult and expensive to use geothermal energy. There are a few
places in the world where Mother Nature has seen fit to provide
ideal conditions for geothermal power and those places have, for the
most part, been taken advantage of. Trying to build your own
geothermal resources is one hell of a lot more difficult then
talking about it on the net.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Sep 92 06:34:25 GMT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: House-Senate NASA Budget Members
Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space

Here's a list of the House/Senate conferres who are negotiating
NASA's fiscal year 1993 budget:

09/09/92 Senate conferees named: (CR p. S13073) (WR p. 2722)

MIKULSKI, D-Md.
LEAHY, D-Vt.
JOHNSTON, D-La.
LAUTENBERG, D-N.J.
FOWLER, D- Ga.
KERREY, D-Neb.
BYRD, D-W.Va.
GARN, R-Utah
D'AMATO, R-N.Y.
NICKLES, R-Okla.
GRAMM, R-Texas
BOND, R-Mo.
HATFIELD, R-Ore.

09/15/92 House conferees named: (CR p. H8363)

TRAXLER, D-Mich.
STOKES, D-Ohio
MOLLOHAN, D-W.Va.
CHAPMAN, D-Texas
ATKINS, D-Mass.
KAPTUR, D-Ohio
WHITTEN, D-Miss.
GREEN, R-N.Y.
COUGHLIN, R-Pa.
LOWERY, R-Calif.
MCDADE, R-Pa.

     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Quiet people aren't the
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | only ones who don't say
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | much.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 19:40:39 GMT
From: Chris Kostanick 806 1044 <chris@kbsw1>
Subject: How does population relate to space?
Newsgroups: sci.space

If you truly oppose population increase in the United States
you should have a vasectomy. Have you had one?

Chris Kostanick

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 1992 16:26 EDT
From: Greg Macrae <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ion for Pluto Direct was Re: Pluto Direct
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dave Tholen) writes...
>Agreed that ion has FLIGHT time and mass advantages beyond the asteroid belt,
>but once we get there, we'd like to have some time to study the object, and
>a fast ion drive flyby provides less time to do that.  True, ion can be used
>to slow down, even enough to go into orbit, but then the flight time increases,
>and the estimates we were given were much, much longer than 3.5 years.

The study I am refering to assumed about 10 metric tons for the interplanetary
stage.  This was chosen as an upper limit for a single vehicle launch from
earth.  A round trip time of 10 years was chosen, and the trajectory was
optimized for mass to a Pluto orbit.  (note that is not a flyby)  The
optimized trajectory included 1562 days (4.27 years) of coasting.  Current
technology ion thrusters were baselined, ie. 10 khours life, measured Ar ion
thruster efficiencies, measured thrust/power ratios, demonstrated system
mass ratios, etc.  Payload delivered varied from 340-1030 kg depending on
the nuclear reactor configuration (SP-100 data used).  The reference I am
using is: Hack, K. J., George, Riehl, Gilland, "Evolutionary Use of Nuclear
Electric Propulsion," AIAA Paper 90-3821, September 1990, presented at the
AIAA Space Programs and Technologies Conference, Huntsville AL, 1990.  The
groundrules for this study called for payload mass frection optimization.
You would get different flight time and payload results if flight time was
minimized instead.

A comparison study was conducted for standard chemical and NTP systems.
(my file containing that one is currently on loan so I cannot provide
numbers or the exact title)  The result was that with a 10 MT interplanetary
vehicle mass standard chemical could not get you there in less than 20
years.  20 years was imposed as a maximum time for the NTP system (this
would require a launch in the year 2000 to hit the other goal of exploration
by the year 2020)  With 20 years, the system could not deliver more than 10
kg to a Pluto orbit.  The mass delivered increased to the neighborhood of
400 kg for a flyby mission using NEP.
>
>And I wouldn't go so far as to say that ion drive enables a Pluto mission.

For your groundrules, chemical missions may be plausible with multiple
launches and on orbit assembly.  For a single launch vehicle, ion technology
enables the orbiter/lander missions.  I am unaware of any studies by JPL or
LeRC that model on orbit assembly and minimize trip time for ion propulsion
systems.  A separate study by Chen-wan L. Yen and C. G. Sauer at JPL looked
at other single vehicle launch possibilities and included a Titan IV/Centaur
combination as well as a proposed heavy lift launch vehicle (shuttle-C)/
Centaur stack.  Their numbers reflect higher payloads and longer trip times.

>on chemical rockets.  Many of them are quite attractive.  Ion drive options
>are also attractive, but riskier.  Therein lies the Catch 22.
>
I am developing ion engine components, so my views must be considered in that
light.  However, providing multiple launches, astonaut assembly time, or
(god forbid) a new Saturn V plus class of launchers to get your system off
Earth seems a whole lot riskier to me.  When you calibrate for my views,
consider that I know what ALL of the issues and hurdles for ion are.

>Regarding my comment about development of ion drive not being funded, I was
>referring to the type of long duration mechanism proposed for the TAU mission.

See my comments above on the data sources.  Just how much more development
do you want to see for a system that need not be launched until 2010 or later?

Greg MacRae
--------------------------------------------------------------------

     MacRae                  |       Too curious flower
                             |   Watching us pass, met death...
  [e-mail]  |       Our hungry donkey.
                             |                      -Basho
--------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 23:23:26 GMT
From: Bruce Dunn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Minimal chemical mission to Pluto
Newsgroups: sci.space

        People interested in an absolutely simple mission to Pluto might try
looking for a book "Interplanetary Spacecraft", listed as being by:

General Editor - Bill Yenne
with
Gary Deichsel
Gary Hudson
Joseph A. LeBlanc

Published by Bison Books, London, 1988
ISBN 0 86124 439 7

from the dustjacket:

Yenne -    "an aviation and aerospace writer"
Deischel - "an instrument and electrical designer"
Hudson -   "president and chief executive officer of Pacific American Launch
            Systems"
LeBland    "president of American Microsat, a firm founded to develop both
            small spacecraft and low-cost infared trackers... Lockheed's
            last Agena engineer"




This is a 125 page color illustrated coffe-table sized book which I picked up
for $5 or so on a remainder table at a bookstore.  In the jacket blurb:  "The
objective of the book is to provide a detailed look into the development
processes and inner workings of interplanetary spacecraft, by taking you, the
reader, through the initial steps required to build one".  While showing the
design process for the hypotheical spacecraft, considerable reference is made
to the Voyager hardware for comparison to the "conventional" way of doing a
planetary probe.

        The chosen mission is a minimum mass, minimum cost flyby of Pluto.  The
projected launch vehicle was a Pacific American Liberty, which is a low cost,
pressure fed booster that Gary Hudson was working on several years ago.  The
rated payload of this hypothetical vehicle was approximately 500 lbs to low
earth orbit.

        An escape stage of about 800 lbs mass is used, burning storable
propellants and using a pressure fed engine.  The stage has a cold gas attitude
control system, and remains attached to the payload after escape.  The
following is carried:
computer        40 lbs - based on redundant PCs
antenna         45 lbs
two TV cameras  10 lbs - "camcorder" types with platforms
miscellaneous   15 lbs
batteries       70 lbs

        The "design" is more of an exercise than a fully through out proposal.
Cameras, computers etc. are "off the shelf".  Precise details are lacking, but
it is apparent from the batteries which are specified that the probe
essentially sleeps all the way to Pluto.  Long life batteries are used to keep
some electronics just ticking over. It is not specified whether the probe would
be able to receive signals or make mid-course trajectory corrections. Near
Pluto, thermal batteries are activated.  These use a pyrotechnic charge to melt
the electrolyte in batteries which can provide high power for the couple of
hours needed to transmit the video information back to earth.

        I won't defend the probe concept - I am merely pointing it out for
people who want to try to find a library copy of the book (probably in a public
library, rather than an academic library).

        I will be travelling for the next week, so any mail or postings
regarding the above will not be immediately seen by me.




--
Bruce Dunn    Vancouver, Canada   [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Sep 92 20:33:59 GMT
From: Barbara Haddad <[e-mail]>
Subject: overpopulation
Newsgroups: sci.space

> >percentage of women would prefer to have fewer children if that was an optio
>
> <chuckle>. Some very BROAD statements. Which part of Africa do you refer? The
> are some countries which are quite "civilized." Why, they even have running
> water and color TV in the cities!
       It doesn't matter what degree of 'civilization' most of Africa
enjoys -- the problem is that Islam (the religion of a majority of
African nations) strongly condemns contraception.  Since the governments
in question (for the extreme majority) are much more influenced by
religion than are Western societies, this religious bias extends to the
options their women are offered.  Contraceptives are available in the
black markets much more readily than by physician & women who use them
are societally condemned.  ---much as Catholic women who practive birth
control are viewed by their Church, at least officially---

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbara Haddad -> ([e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 22:37:03 GMT
From: "George F. McQuary" <[e-mail]>
Subject: overpopulation
Newsgroups: sci.space

[Comments about Africa population boom ommited.]

Why all this misguided energy spent worrying about Africa? Asia has a much
larger population than the African continent.

India ALONE (by their government census) just added the equalivent of
2.5 times the population of the United States in the last ten years. This is
with only around 5% growth. China can keep it's population growth down to
1% and still dwarf that since they too have such a large population base
to begin with.

Of course, human population growth tends to grow to what the current level
of technology can support with resources. Population growth is not bad as
long as technology keeps growing to keep up with it. There are actually
two groups on population growth: The Boomers and the Doomers.

Gloomers
========
Tend to quote outdated books and ignore all statistics except their
outdated models. Such things as that the U.S. population would be decreasing
if it wasn't for immigration, rural population decreasing since before WWII
(although the amount of urban land vs rural has increased in compensation)
and that most all first world countries having declining populations are
of little matter. Too much population is to them a serious problem, but they
are seldom willing to kill themselves to make their own contribution to
correcting this.

Boomers
=======
Tend to point out that population growth results in a larger labor force
to terraform the earth and support life (anyone who believes unmanaged land
results in an abundence of life should visit South Dakota). Have well
researched historical studies showing how the average worker since 1740 has
increased siginificantly the amount of basic resources (coal, gold, etc.)
that they can afford that easily extrapolate into the future (Let's face it:
the average western middle class person today has better education and health
care, more posessions, and more luxurious shelter than most kings of a thousand
years ago --again, have you seen a real castle?).

There are well constructed models that explain that population growth is
responsible for this phenomenom (More people => more researchers => faster
technology growth => better quality of life). These fail to show when
further  population growth will be bad however, so after talking to a boomer
for a while you notice that they sound like the best possible quality of life
will be when the entire planet mass is consumed by people.

The academic argument currently raging about this issue is entertaining,
and well worth getting more aquainted with.

=====
     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."
                       Dr. Paul Erlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968

------------------------------

Date: 17 Sep 92 12:45:41 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: PBS offers two FREE student events
Newsgroups: sci.space

X-Date: 17 Sep 92 12:26:54 EDT
XX-From: [e-mail]
XX-Newsgroups: alt.education.distance

X-Date: 16 Sep 92 18:29:37 EDT
X-Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA
Lines: 99

TO:   Education Liasons, School Librarians, ITV Coordinators
FR:   PBS Elementary/Secondary Service
RE:   Two Free Student Events for International Space Year!
DT:   September 16, 1992

Please contact your local PBS station Education Services Director to find out
about the availability of these two specials:

October 1, 1992, 1:00-2:00 PM Eastern
SPACE AGE SCHOOL SPECIAL WITH SALLY RIDE
Astronaut Sally Ride and an on-site teen audience will discuss the space age of
tomorrow. Preview portions of the new PBS Space Age series and look at what we
have learned about the Earth from space. (Target age: junior and senior high
students). Educational rights for this event are free. The tape may be used in
perpetuity and may be replayed at your convenience.

October 15, 1992, 3:00-4:00 PM Eastern
MARSVILLE: THE COSMIC VILLAGE
Join a NASA astronaut for on-air discussion of what is needed to build the
first human settlement on Mars. Where is the best place to build a colony? How
will life differ from life on Earth? Includes problem-solving and call-in
opportunities. (Target age: middle and junior high students). Educational
rights for this special are free. The tape may be used in perpetuity and may be
replayed at your convenience.

The PBS Elementary/Secondary Service is the school television arm of PBS
dedicated to serving the instructional needs of students and teachers through
and on behalf of public television stations and other education agencies
nationwide. E/SS acquires and distributes educational programming and related
curricular support materials for K-12 grade classroom use; promotes the use of
PBS's primetime programming as a curricular resource; provides professional
development for educators; serves as an outreach liason to the education
community; supports research and development and serves as a national advocate
for the use of video and related technologies for learning.

If you would like to receive more information on PBS E/SS, please E-Mail to
[e-mail] or print-out and mail or fax the following Interest Form:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YES! I would like to receive more information on the following PBS
E/SS programs or publications.  This information will be sent at no
cost to you and with no obligation:

Programming

_____3-2-1 CLASSROOM CONTACT (Science, Grades 4-6)
_____AMIGOS (Spanish, Grades K-2)
_____CASTLE AND CATHEDRAL (History, Grades 5-10)
_____THE CHALLENGE OF THE UNKNOWN (Math, Grades 4-12)
_____EAT WELL, BE WELL (Health, Grades 1-4)
_____EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER LAW (History, Grades 10-12)
_____FRANCE-TV MAGAZINE (Advanced French, Grades 8-12)
_____FUTURES1 with Jaime Escalante (Math & Science, Grades 7-12)
_____FUTURES2 with Jaime Escalante (Math & Science, Grades 7-12)
_____GROWING UP, GROWING OLDER (Relationships, Grades 5-6)
_____ICEWALK (Environmental Science, Grades 7-12)
_____NATIONAL AUDUBON SPECIALS (Science, Grades 4-12)
_____NSBA VIDEOCONFERENCE EVENT 10/22/92 (Professional Development)
_____PYRAMID (Interdisciplinary, Grades 5-9)
_____RACE TO SAVE THE PLANET: Instructional Modules (Science, 7-12)
_____SPACE AGE SCHOOL SPECIALS (Science & Social Studies, High School)
_____SPACESHIP EARTH (Geography, Environmental Science, Grades 9-12)
_____TELECOMMUNICATIONS: Bringing the World to the Classroom (Professional Dev)
_____UNDER THE MICROSCOPE (Science Teacher Staff Development, Grades 3-7)
_____VOYAGE OF THE MIMI & SECOND VOM (Science, Grades 4-8)
_____WORLD'S LARGEST CONCERT (Music, Grades K-12)

Print Resources

_____COPYRIGHT: STAYING WITHIN THE LAW Order Form
_____ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCE COMPENDIUM Order Form
_____LEARNING FILE, VOL.   3: FOR THOSE WHO UTILIZE ITV Order Form
_____1992 INTERNATIONAL SPACE YEAR COMPENDIUM Order Form

Organization:
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Title:
Address:
City:                                             State:
Zip+4:
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Please fax this form to the E/SS FAX number, [phone], or mail
to Tom Flavell; PBS E/SS; 1320 Braddock Place; Alexandria, VA 22314-
1698.

______ I want to know the name and phone number of my local PBS
station Education Services contact.  My local PBS station call
letters are:____________
The nearest major city is:_______________________________________

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 19:27:02 GMT
From: David Knapp <[e-mail]>
Subject: Population
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Edward V. Wright) writes:
>In <gdavis.716682418@griffin> [e-mail] (Gary Davis) writes:
>
>> And that is exactly the problem,as illustrated so well on this board.
>>If the first world subtly or otherwise advocates population control
>>they are accused of being both selfish and racist.... The world
>>collectively must first admit that human numbers need to be controlled.
>                                    ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
>
>What this really translates into is "human *beings* must be controlled."
>You, of course, probably see yourself as one of the controllers,
>which means that your goals are not "selfish."  But the accusation
>of racism is no less true just because the race you hate is the human
>race.

You are reading *way* to much into what Gary said.

>Environmentalist (noun) -- Someone who loves the Earth and
>every species on it, except one.

You probably are having a difficult time of dealing with life with your
own particular dictionary definitions. It appears you categorically deny
any amount of truth associated with conservationism or overpopulation
Unfortunately, this hurts not only the ignorant, but everyone who may
realize that there is at least some truth  in what Gary has said.



--
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Perpetual Student                                   [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 22:41:11 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Ross Borden)
Subject: radioactive waste disposal

  Why do you want to throw radioactive waste into the sun?  We may need
it someday.  Yes, I'm serious.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        "It seemed like a good idea at the time..." - S. Rushdie             |
|                            [e-mail]                               |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 23:37:41 GMT
From: Steinn Sigurdsson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Radio ownership
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom) writes:

   Obviously, people with a desire to broadcast will work out a peaceful
   compromise, rather than muscle each other, intensity-wise, and end
   up not brodacsting, with a host of civil suits, since the peaceful way
   is the prosperous one.

This is a false assumption. Read some history.

Further, why the objection when the compromise is institutionalised
and called the FCC?

|  Steinn Sigurdsson    |I saw two shooting stars last night        |
|  Lick Observatory    |I wished on them but they were only satellites    |
| [e-mail] |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?        |
| "standard disclaimer"    |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983    |

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 92 21:38:48 GMT
From: Steinn Sigurdsson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Space Platforms (political, not physical : -)
Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Scott McGuire) writes:


   >?? My understanding on the radio was that if you wanted to pay the
   >money to outpower someone on a frequency they either had to ante up
   >or buy you out. So why couldn't the cubans turn on their counter to
   >Radio Matri (sp?)  - which under current rules the US has indicated
   >they'd bomb if turned on...

   If I own some frequency (in some limited area I imagine) no one can use
   that frequency with out my consent.  If they do they are trespassing and
   subject to whatever civil/criminal penalties the law allows.  It doesn't
   matter how tiny my transmitter is (or even if I transmit at all).  Also,
   if I broadcast with to strong a transmitter and interfere with someones
   frequency in a neighboring area, than I am trespassing.

This is getting way off topic for sci.space, but by what right that
the Cubans recognise would a US Libertarian society own any part
of the radio spectrum if they abbrogated the existing governmental
treaties? In particular, how do you think the cubans should respond if
a Miami station decided a cuban military reserve slot was just the
ticket, and "occupied it" and claimed onwership under US guidelines?

Sue under a legal system they do not recognise with no enforcement powers?

|  Steinn Sigurdsson    |I saw two shooting stars last night        |
|  Lick Observatory    |I wished on them but they were only satellites    |
| [e-mail] |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?        |
| "standard disclaimer"    |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983    |

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End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 222
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